How is Zen really moving ?

[SheepDomination]

I have a general question; Zen is a one man team and is the idea of one man.

Therefore even though there are alot of ideas and including issues with Zen; it's only up to one man whether it is of his interest to include it in Zen. Therefore why not have simply a poll of a list of alot of features and if the developer decides he may like that feature he can ask for more explanation of such feature.

It appears that if you bring any issue up to the solo developer of Zen that he doesn't like, he will just ignore it or add it to a growing list that is a vine that never stops growing; yet alot with some dedication could simply be added into Zen. On this path, Zen development can actually be slower then other browsers, not because it is not a good browser but the direction and slothfulness that it is progressing.

[andreyrd]

Unless you have paid for Zen, it is a gift to you, not a product/service. And there is no obligation on his part to do anything for you. You are always free to create your own Firefox fork.

[SheepDomination]

The Developer is creating Zen based on his image; not on the many requests. Zen is essentially just Arc in a new coat, so anyone can look at Arc pick what they like and ask the developer of Zen to add it. There isn't much thought to this process as we've seen in the development of Zen.

Actual Zen is a product, not a "gift" you got things all wrong there @andreyrd. As mentioned Zen is Arc and I wouldn't create my own fork of FireFox cause there are way to many already.

[istnein]

@istnein

And to response to @A ... count, eventually he is going to delete a few lines from the various documents that write the project goal and add the new project goals to them._~

Relax man stop overthinking it. Zen is a gift. being toxic wouldn't help it either.

I am not toxic but yeah am kinda mad because I don't wanna zen to be next victim. Zen and floorp are only alternatives and they have a good experenice. I only wanna we don't lose zen...
And also i said that subject many time with respect and peace of mind but dev closed my topic and what i can say....

[KParthSingh]

@istnein

I am not toxic but yeah am kinda mad because I don't wanna zen to be next victim. Z...

Well you are being toxic. be thankful that you've got zen browser in the first place. it's a one man project who manages all the pull request and believe me when dealing with project that has blown up in the wild so quickly often overwhelms project maintainers. yeah they kinda ignore the discussion page because they have tons upon tons of feature requests already. being angry at them is not gonna change anything.

[vraravam]

@KParthSingh - your definition of "being toxic" seems to cover a very wide spectrum.

This is more of a rant from a user who would like for the product to become better (more stable) so that the userbase is not eroded.
I too agree that the releasing of new features can be slowed down a little and a bit more attention can be given to fixing of bugs. I am not saying do one thing 100% - but, more of split the effort to advance both.

[andreyrd]

Cambridge Dictionary defines product as "something that is made to be sold". Zen is not being sold. It is being given away. For free. It doesn't even take your data as payment - like with Google.

My entire point in commenting is that you guys are coming on here and rudely demanding an awful lot from someone who really does not owe you anything. If you disagree with the current direction of the project, fork it and take it in the direction that you prefer.

Step outside. Look at some faces. Look up at the sky. Breathe a bit of air.

[vraravam]

@andreyrd :

1. Please show where the OP or I was being "rude".
2. My point to come into the thread was to suggest that rather than continuing as a 1-person team, maybe increasing the number of willing contributors would be something that would benefit the whole community/userbase.
3. As a software techie, we always have to balance new features against fixing bugs in older features vs polishing the old features to a 100% shine. Balance is always needed - which to some folks' perception, is missing here.

I actually started trying to build Zen locally at one point - with the intention of contribution. But, even after repeated requests to help with the setup, there wasn't any help forthcoming. so I left that intent.

I have been the sole maintainer of multiple other FOSS softwares, and one aspect that I try to maintain is to document [especially scripted as much as possible] any/all steps that future contributors can use to make their contribution easier than before. This is the old boy scout rule of leaving the place better than what one finds it. (not something that I coined or know 1st hand about - just something that I was taught/told when I started my FOSS contribution journey back in 2000). This level of scripted/completely documented thing is not present afaik, nor was I helped when requesting both via a ticket and in the discord server.

[KParthSingh]

Zen development can actually be slower then other browsers, not because it is not a good browser but the direction and slothfulness that it is progressing.

Bro do you realize development is not that easy. look at his mauro's github profile he has worked on zen literally every single fucking day. the pace is slow because he's only one person who's maintaining the project not slothfulness. Maintaining a web browser is hard. it's tedious progress not easy as it might look like.

[vraravam]

To be truthful, I agree with the OP. Working functionality (for eg sidebar expand on hover) was removed.

Suggesting in the constructive side of things: I would hope that the improvements done in Zen can be back-ported into the core FF and/or the functionality from FF can be enhanced in Zen to give a "current experience of Zen" experience - but, built on top of FF. This would mean that the net code in Zen is not too divergent from what FF has. As a software techie, I can understand the pain that this effort could most likely involve - but, thinking strategically of the userbase, that seems like the best option. It will allow (if at some point of time the zen development is "abandoned", for the userbase to go back to FF and continue with very minimal loss of functionality. Currently, though, due to the divergent implementations, that chasm is widening.

[SheepDomination]

There is a point to what @vraravam says with the foundation of Zen is FireFox just to start.

[KParthSingh]

I agree with @vraravam

[pxlrbt]

Some are so simple, yet it's not added.

So, did you send a PR?

[SheepDomination]

Some are so simple, yet it's not added.

So, did you send a PR?

The PR is known.

[MaximilianZenz]

Why would you focus on new ideas from people from the outside if the core browser feature arent even ready yet and the browser is still in beta? Getting to a stable base line is way more important than implementing a bunch of random features. Also this is an open source project. If you want something just implement it and create a pr. if its good enough i am sure it will get accepted. Implementing a whole browser as a more or less one man team isnt a easy feat and its already one of the best browsers ive ever used.

[SheepDomination]

If core browser features are not ready yet, what is that telling those who use Zen. It's making doubt on the progress of Zen. Core Browser features should have added or focus on the last year; instead we are being still told they are not added yet.

I understand it's a one man team, but this one man team seems to drag their heals at times on purpose when there is too much shots being fired at him. Instead of coming forward and addressing the situation and giving time lines on when things will be added as well as some request.

Could it be that this is becoming a bit too much for the one man team and their purpose was to make a browser that was like Arc for themselves and a few others but decided to share it for everyone but didn't realize the weight it would carry on development and time ?

[MaximilianZenz]

Are shots being fired? Besides your post, I've seen nobody complain about the situation. And it's not something hidden that core features like sync aren't ready yet. That's what the roadmap is for, and there you can see what is currently being worked on. I don't know if you are into development yourself, but it's so damn impressive that we are even where we are now with a one-man team. I wouldn't even be mad if it takes years from now until the core functionality is done. And tbh if I were that one dev I wouldn't answer people who ask such a "question" either. He pretty much does this for free just because he wants to create a better browser than what currently exists. I don't think that he makes a profit with this at all or that this is even his full-time job.

[SheepDomination]

Do you know what I meant by the phrase "shots being fired" ?

Basically your running on a democracy ideology in that, because you've seen throwing in a few others complain about it; it can only be me. Based on other comments, that is not the case.

If they are doing this for free based on their own time, then by having those core features already added a while ago or even by stretching it available now, That could show not only themselves by those who use Zen, that they are working on this diligently. Although It seems that it's a wave with progress. It moves but then slows down, and weeks pass or months. The whole foundation of Zen is the FireFox render engine so it's not as if they are designing a completely new browser.

Let it be known that there is a group working on a new browser with a new engine and it seems they've made more progress then Zen. I'm not comparing the two, I'm just saying as a developer you work as someone who works in a bakery making bread. As much as your mind can do it with considering factors. With Zen we are not seeing this, instead people are growing inpatient, while we are all told "please wait, be patient", "stop complaining", and the other final phrase as you mentioned; "it's only you".

Look at it all around, rather then just one post.