1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,100 [Dennis] Go ahead and introduce yourself.
2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:10,720 [Robert] Howdy y'all, I am Robert Kingett
3 00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:13,560 and I am
4 00:00:14,540 --> 00:00:17,720 I'm a person that wears a lot of hats.
5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,220 I am a journalist, I am an author,
6 00:00:21,220 --> 00:00:26,840 I am an amateur comedian
7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:32,940 I am a columnist
8 00:00:32,940 --> 00:00:49,260 and I am an advocate who happens to be number one
9 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:51,940 incredibly handsome
10 00:00:51,940 --> 00:00:58,440 and number two, blind and vision impaired.
11 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,240 And I'm here today
12 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,620 to essentially tell all of you guys why having your
13 00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:22,000 sites and or applications is a good idea
14 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:29,280 to have your sites and or applications accessible.
15 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:39,780 So to preface the talk, I will open up with a little tale.
16 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:53,120 In November of 2014, a friend and I were at the park
17 00:01:53,120 --> 00:02:01,760 and we were talking about Net neutrality and the FCC
18 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:09,480 and Net neutrality rules and regulations and all that
19 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:17,780 and he presented a dare to me.
20 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:24,700 And the dare was not to use any Internet
21 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:33,560 for a whole month, at all.
22 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:41,640 In the twenty first century, I could not use Internet at all.
23 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:51,500 And if you want to read about that, you could
24 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:59,220 buy my book "Off the Grid: Living Blind Without the Internet"
25 00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:12,000 I learned that the Internet is a utility.
26 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:19,840 It helps us to create jobs for those who can't travel
27 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,980 and it's a great resource if you know how to use it
28 00:03:23,980 --> 00:03:34,020 and if you stay off of horrible, horrible forums like
29 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,620 porchen and h-chen and all of those.
30 00:03:37,620 --> 00:03:44,800 It really can open up someone's
31 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:57,260 world, and it can broaden their horizons
32 00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:02,580 if it's accessible to everyone
33 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:09,760 There's a common myth that if an application
34 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,960 or a site is usable, it's accessible.
35 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:17,540 And that's not entirely the case.
36 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:20,680 For someone who uses a screen reader,
37 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:29,320 like me, your code has to be
38 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,600 your code has to have labels in it,
39 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:46,820 it has to have elements that tell the screen reader
40 00:04:46,820 --> 00:05:02,140 what this is, and how we should interact with it.
41 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:04,280 A great example
42 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:17,520 I like to use often is edit fields.
43 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:27,420 If you're using a screen reader
44 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,260 changes are you're going to tab through
45 00:05:34,180 --> 00:05:38,760 multiple edit fields.
46 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:46,160 And if you hear "edit" and nothing else,
47 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:57,280 your thinking, "Okay, what am I filling in?"
48 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:06,140 So, it is incredibly important to have your
49 00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:10,100 edit fields labeled, have your links labeled
50 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:17,200 in a way where everybody knows where they lead.
51 00:06:17,620 --> 00:06:22,140 For example, if I'm looking at a blog,
52 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:32,960 and I'm an advanced user, so I navigate very differently
53 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,540 than a person who is just learning how to use
54 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:47,580 NVDA or JAWs, which is a screen reader.
55 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:51,500 I would navigate via elements.
56 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:55,700 I would tell my screen reader to, okay,
57 00:06:55,700 --> 00:07:00,720 show me a list of all the links on the page.
58 00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:04,800 And if I scroll through all those links
59 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,540 and every link is "click here," "click here,"
60 00:07:09,540 --> 00:07:15,160 or my favorite ... "click here,"
61 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,260 [laughter]
62 00:07:17,260 --> 00:07:22,680 it's incredibly hard to know, ok, what do these links ...
63 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:31,820 A person who might use, you know,
64 00:07:31,820 --> 00:07:39,560 interpretive mouse inputs or keyboard input
65 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:45,360 might actually like how those links are
66 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:53,720 because they're short and maybe in their case
67 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,840 it's easier to click on.
68 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:08,180 So that's why I strongly advocate for user testing.
69 00:08:08,180 --> 00:08:18,640 I heard consultants who know their stuff
70 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,220 because I'm going to be honest with you,
71 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:27,820 no matter how long you use a screen reader,
72 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:31,820 you're just never going to learn as much
73 00:08:31,820 --> 00:08:37,460 as a person who uses it every day of the week.
74 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:48,420 And, also, if you hire accessibility consultants,
75 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:58,120 you're giving a lot of disabled people a job that they
76 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,440 that they have never thought about.
77 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:13,400 So, and I'm sure everybody in this room wants
78 00:09:14,180 --> 00:09:23,280 to help out our economy, in some way or another.
79 00:09:23,740 --> 00:09:32,680 I have low vision also, so I use high contrast
80 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:42,580 on my Windows machine, so everything is quite
81 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:50,780 text on black surface, it's easier to see.
82 00:09:51,580 --> 00:09:55,420 And, one time, I asked the developer, I said
83 00:09:55,420 --> 00:10:00,700 "Ok, well, can you make this accessible for high contrast
84 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:05,700 because I'm running through your site and
85 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:11,320 I'm testing it and the developer asked
86 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,400 "well, how many people actually use high contrast?"
87 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,000 I said that kind of doesn't matter.
88 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:27,780 It's kind of like the old adage, if you build it
89 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:30,540 they will come.
90 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:38,980 If you make your sites and apps and software accessible
91 00:10:38,980 --> 00:10:42,520 more people will use it, more people
92 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,740 will tell other people about your services
93 00:10:45,740 --> 00:10:49,320 and then more will flock to you and say
94 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,020 I love you very much, you're totally awesome,
95 00:10:52,020 --> 00:10:53,280 that kind of thing
96 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,100 So it's ... the blind community talks
97 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:03,100 and we know how to talk amongst ourselves
98 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:08,440 we know how to create a flurry of
99 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,520 testimonials on Twitter, we know how to
100 00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:19,200 get the word out about your product
101 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:25,040 or service out there.
102 00:11:27,180 --> 00:11:37,120 Recently, I won a many year long campaign
103 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:45,140 against Netflix, for their inaccessibility.
104 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:56,680 And, this is getting into the dark side of not making
105 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:01,680 site and service accessible.
106 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:07,120 You will get a lot of
107 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:29,880 push back, and it's not because we just want to
108 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,940 create havoc for you. We just want to use your
109 00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:43,120 application or service or product.
110 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:50,840 One myth I hear all the time and this is when I
111 00:12:51,580 --> 00:12:55,680 talk to developers and everything, they say that
112 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:59,240 well, I don't have enough money to make my
113 00:12:59,740 --> 00:13:03,400 site or app accessible.
114 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:10,240 So, then I say, okay, well how are you able to
115 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,180 write your code then, because obviously
116 00:13:13,180 --> 00:13:19,840 you're writing your code on a free and or open source
117 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:25,140 software, if you have any money to make your site
118 00:13:25,140 --> 00:13:31,380 its all code. So it literally
119 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:38,700 does not cost you any monetary value
120 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:44,700 it just costs you a little time, and sometimes a little
121 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:49,680 problem solving, and sometimes a little
122 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,580 bit of asking questions and receiving feedback
123 00:13:57,580 --> 00:14:02,540 from the community that you're trying to
124 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:05,860 make accessible.
125 00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:13,500 There's companies out there that have a team of
126 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:21,040 contractors who will go through your site and or app
127 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,180 and or service
128 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,360 give you feedback.
129 00:14:29,620 --> 00:14:35,620 and one of these is a company I work with
130 00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:40,640 its called AccessibilityOz.
131 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:47,560 They ... what I like about companies like that is
132 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:54,400 they take in a lot of people who use a lot of
133 00:14:56,180 --> 00:15:09,540 adaptive technology, so you get a lot of feedback.
134 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:17,120 One thing to note about
135 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:26,100 hiring accessibility consultants however is
136 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:31,100 sometimes they think they're all that and
137 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:37,160 they are not really interested in improving your service
138 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,360 they just want to tell you to do things.
139 00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:45,120 So that is one thing I
140 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:54,600 take into account when I consult others on their apps
141 00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:59,540 and sites is okay, well if I were
142 00:16:01,060 --> 00:16:05,680 a beginning user who has never used a screen reader
143 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,360 and how would I navigate?
144 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:19,940 So, like anything else, accessibility
145 00:16:19,940 --> 00:16:29,360 is not a one size fits all solution.
146 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:35,740 Something that might be accessible for me
147 00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:43,000 might not actually be accessible to someone else
148 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:49,580 because they haven't learned how to, say,
149 00:16:50,960 --> 00:17:00,240 have you do links list in JAWS or NVDA.
150 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:13,400 And this harkens back to usability and accessibility
151 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:19,140 and the differences between the two.
152 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:25,340 Let's look at the open source community for a bit.
153 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:28,540 LibreOffice
154 00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:37,480 which I use to write very controversial articles on things
155 00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:46,100 is halfway accessible. It's completely usable
156 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:53,440 it's just halfway accessible to someone
157 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:59,320 using a screen reader, except the community over there
158 00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:09,680 is great, although you get a few developers who again
159 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,260 they think usability and accessibility
160 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,760 are exactly the same, and
161 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:24,460 its always interesting to have to explain it
162 00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:32,180 it's almost like you have to explain the difference
163 00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:41,160 between a brownie and a cupcake
164 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:43,240 [laughing]
165 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:52,960 One thing that I see a lot of people do
166 00:18:54,380 --> 00:18:57,320 in terms of development is that they want to make
167 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:02,940 their sites incredibly flashy, like have moving images
168 00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:09,360 and flashy animations and everything of that nature.
169 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,980 That's all great, except you also have to remember that
170 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:21,200 this is 2016 and chances are someone is going to
171 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,980 go to your website on a iPhone or an iPad
172 00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:31,860 or something of that nature, not a desktop computer.
173 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:39,920 so if your site is made out of, let's say Flash
174 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,600 for example, and I have seen this happen several times
175 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,240 your site is made out of Flash,
176 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:56,480 then how are these mobile devices going to access
177 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,020 the Flash. So you have to integrate
178 00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:09,000 usability and accessibility early on
179 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,180 otherwise it is going to be really hard for you
180 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,920 later down the road.
181 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,720 From a coding standpoint and from a
182 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,620 frustration, uh I just want to pull my hair out
183 00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:29,780 because these disabled people want to use my site
184 00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:33,280 and I have no idea how to do this, kind of thing.
185 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:49,100 When I talk about inclusion, I also stress very much so
186 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:55,160 that you don't make an alternative accessible mirror
187 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:06,100 of your site. Because, you're just one developer.
188 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:15,200 so changes are you won't have the time to update your
189 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,980 separate mobile site on this other server
190 00:21:20,980 --> 00:21:25,520 try to have everything integrated into one
191 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:31,160 if at all possible. Make your main site and or app
192 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:37,760 accessible, try not to have a separate version
193 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,820 of your site or app because number 1
194 00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:44,480 it kind of makes us feel
195 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:51,840 like ok, we're like second natured to them
196 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:58,420 so we don't matter enough to where they can't
197 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:10,160 include us when they are designing their main site.
198 00:22:10,660 --> 00:22:14,880 And, number two, it's hard on you as a developer
199 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:21,020 to try to maintain two applications
200 00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:27,720 rather than one application.
201 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:36,120 A lot of people today use sites like
202 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:42,400 Wix or Squarespace or Weebly
203 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,820 to design their sites.
204 00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:54,240 If at all possible, try not to rely on them
205 00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:04,520 for accessibility because they will fail
206 00:23:05,380 --> 00:23:11,960 because none of their platforms were designed with
207 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,620 accessibility in mind
208 00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:19,160 so if you just make a site with any of them
209 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:27,480 with Wix or Squarespace, chances are that
210 00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:35,380 number one, you're not going to be able to edit all
211 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,100 your code, and number 2
212 00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:47,200 it is such a
213 00:23:54,380 --> 00:24:04,480 basic site that accessibility has not been considered on
214 00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:08,320 their end, so you have to go off and
215 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,360 have to clean up all the mess.
216 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,920 There is one exception to this however,
217 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:23,380 if you are making a site using WordPress, and
218 00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:29,700 their platform is entirely accessible and
219 00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:39,120 there are accessible feeds out there so you don't have to
220 00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:46,480 do anything or much of anything extra
221 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:57,060 You might have to fiddle with some alt text
222 00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:02,920 here and there, you might have to fiddle with
223 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:12,660 a few headers and things but overall you'll save yourself
224 00:25:12,660 --> 00:25:18,320 a lot of work and time and energy.
225 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:27,180 The last thing I want to talk about and
226 00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:30,500 I'll take questions afterwards
227 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,740 I'm sure you guys know that in 2016,
228 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:37,440 alt text is a good thing.
229 00:25:37,940 --> 00:25:40,340 It improves your sales and
230 00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:44,400 it improves your accessibility as well.
231 00:25:44,420 --> 00:25:51,020 Because, Google will crawl the web for alt text and
232 00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:57,000 if you have good alt text on your images
233 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,520 Google will place your site higher than anyone elses
234 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:07,680 So you as a developer ought to be going "Yes!"
235 00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:14,160 So, yes, I know it takes a lot of hard work to
236 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,340 write a few lines of extra code.
237 00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:22,700 And yes, that was sarcasm.
238 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:24,740 [Laughter]
239 00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:31,260 But in the end, it helps everybody, it helps you,
240 00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:42,440 and it helps the end user as well.
241 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:58,980 So, to conclude, if you want to visit me on the web or
242 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,080 check out my journalism or if you want to
243 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:14,320 read my dating column about the very attractive men
244 00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:22,140 that I go out with, you can find all of that on the Internet
245 00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:34,280 at blindjournalist.wordpress.com.
246 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,640 Thank you everybody.
247 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,440 [Applause]
248 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,500 [Dennis] I have a question. From the time that you ...
249 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:50,540 When did you first start online?
250 00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:56,700 [Robert]: I first, um, do you mean writing online?
251 00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:58,340 [Dennis]: Well ...
252 00:27:58,340 --> 00:27:59,200 [Robert]: Or all of the above?
253 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,300 [Dennis]: All of the above.
254 00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:03,800 [Robert]: Oh, like, many moons ago.
255 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:12,860 When I was itty bitty, as we say in the country.
256 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,800 Like about eight or nine, and I was hooked
257 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:31,120 on the Internet. I had more vision than I do now,
258 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:36,980 so I wasn't using screen readers back then
259 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:43,860 and even if I was, it was just to read really really long
260 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:56,040 articles and forums posts about Star Wars vs. Star Trek
261 00:28:57,580 --> 00:29:02,040 [Dennis] So, would you say that, from the time that you
262 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,220 more depended on assistive technology to today,
263 00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:09,720 and actually this reminds me of a question
264 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,980 that always comes up in the screen reader survey that
265 00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:17,280 WebAim comes out with annually
266 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,280 How is the Internet doing today? I mean I know
267 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,780 it was awful I mean two or four years ago.
268 00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:31,080 Would you say, in your circles, is it an improvement,
269 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,180 improving and where would you say it is improving?
270 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240 Obviously, Facebook and Twitter, they're now offering
271 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,560 alt text, so that's leaps and bounds now, but ...
272 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,200 from your experience ...
273 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,340 [Robert]: From my experience,
274 00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:53,780 I see things improving now
275 00:29:56,340 --> 00:30:03,280 because of the legal cases that happened in the past
276 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:09,180 I think that the web has improved dramatically
277 00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:13,360 there are a lot of blind people who would vehemently
278 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,060 disagree with that admission.
279 00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:20,700 I tell them, hey, look,
280 00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:26,860 you don't have as awesome hair as I do, so yeah.
281 00:30:30,260 --> 00:30:37,240 In terms of pure design, I would say that the web
282 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:44,340 has improved greatly. And I really think that it has finally
283 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,500 starting to sink in that, oh, hey
284 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:57,980 disabled people like go online and stuff.
285 00:30:57,980 --> 00:31:01,480 Like it's not a phenomenon any more.
286 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:07,120 However, in terms of content, that's where things
287 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,320 really need improvement because even now
288 00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:19,040 captions hardly exist on the Internet.
289 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,840 You have these automated captions that
290 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:30,160 just aren't sufficient. And a lot of people think
291 00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:37,340 a lot of people are lazy even to me and they're like
292 00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:44,420 "Oh, I don't need to caption my videos because
293 00:31:44,420 --> 00:31:47,280 Google will caption it for me."
294 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:54,680 And that's not the kind of attitude we should have.
295 00:31:56,020 --> 00:32:04,600 But it's an attitude I see even in today's laziness.
296 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:07,000 [Dennis] Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
297 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:13,020 I have a personal and profession experience with the
298 00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:17,180 autocaptions. This meetup, in December,
299 00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:20,700 we tried Google Hangouts for the first time just to see
300 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:21,940 how it would work.
301 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,680 And, one of our assistant organizers at the time
302 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,940 he had bandwidth problems, and I happened to catch
303 00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:35,420 it was already set on autocaptions, I hadn't set it up
304 00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:39,200 from the get go because I didn't know that much about
305 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,620 Google Hangout at the time, but the bandwidth
306 00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:49,560 issues were so strong that the autocaptions
307 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:56,460 at one point of time, our male assistant organizer
308 00:32:56,460 --> 00:33:01,380 was quoted in the captions as having a juicy "arse."
309 00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:02,900 [Laughter]
310 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:03,960 [Dennis]: That's not something that you
311 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,580 want to be public.
312 00:33:06,580 --> 00:33:16,620 Professionally, I work for United Airlines and we publish
313 00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:19,920 a lot of videos, like your flight safety videos,
314 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,180 your ... we have this "Big Metal Bird" thing which
315 00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:27,920 I'll be honest, I don't get yet. But I'm slow, so...
316 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,440 And they have thought that they could get away with
317 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:39,240 autocaptions. What has amazed me is, until I
318 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,560 called them on it and said "What are you doing?"
319 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,480 I don't think they ever turned on captions to see what
320 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,200 the captions said. And it was beyond embarassing
321 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,660 to the brand, what they were allowing to be public.
322 00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:58,740 So we had to call them out and say
323 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:04,680 click the captions there, and it wasn't twenty seconds
324 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,860 until they were like "Oh my god!"
325 00:34:06,860 --> 00:34:11,480 It's like, this is a two minute video, and it takes,
326 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,120 because you already have the script, it takes
327 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,120 ten, fifteen minutes to get the captions synced up
328 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,720 and put on. You couldn't have done that?
329 00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:25,280 Now it's part of their workflow. But it's only
330 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,280 when they saw the shock and horror
331 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,180 of what autocaptions provides.
332 00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:38,260 [Robert]: Yeah, and also, just from a PR standpoint,
333 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,720 you don't want the media to report on you
334 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:47,560 or let's say me, you don't want me to report
335 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:54,340 in the Chicago Tribune, like, United Airlines has horrible
336 00:34:54,340 --> 00:35:04,900 captioning. So, yeah, it's just good practice.
337 00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:10,980 And I'm sure that a lawsuit is not something you want
338 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:13,660 in the future either, so.
339 00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:15,720 [Dennis]: Well, we're mandated by the government
340 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:21,960 anyways, so there's still a compliance thing there.
341 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,720 [Steve]: You mentioned some conversation about
342 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:34,500 alt tags, and I'm wondering what's most meaningful
343 00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:37,360 both from a SEO standpoint and from a
344 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,420 usability standpoint?
345 00:35:40,060 --> 00:35:45,920 For instance, you could really describe a photo well
346 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,360 or you could just do it in a cursory way.
347 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,600 "Child playing with block on floor."
348 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,920 "Three-year-old, cheery, preschool child in Evanston,
349 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,120 Illinois, playing with a block on the floor."
350 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,320 What would you advocate?
351 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,860 [Robert]: From a sales standpoint and
352 00:36:08,860 --> 00:36:10,160 from a user standpoint, I would say
353 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:16,660 try to limit your alt text to two sentences.
354 00:36:16,940 --> 00:36:25,680 Try to limit your alt text to one sentence.
355 00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:34,680 If you're not a good writer, you could just hire me.
356 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,420 [Laughter]
357 00:36:36,420 --> 00:36:41,220 [Robert]: But if you're not a good writer
358 00:36:41,220 --> 00:36:44,760 I would look at websites that have alt text
359 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,700 with just one sentence.
360 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:53,860 Some websites, even though they are
361 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,200 for the blind and the vision impaired,
362 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,740 sometimes even they go way overboard with alt text.
363 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:10,300 Like, I was looking at a consulting website
364 00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:14,240 and their alt text for their logo is literally
365 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:15,860 a paragraph long,
366 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:23,600 So, I was just like "Woa." How do you describe a logo?
367 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,920 They were saying the color of the logo,
368 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,620 how large the letters were,
369 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:30,780 I was like, "no."
370 00:37:30,780 --> 00:37:32,660 [Laughter]
371 00:37:32,660 --> 00:37:35,060 It's like way too much information so
372 00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:42,540 try to edit. So from sale and user experience,
373 00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:49,880 try to limit to one or two sentences.
374 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:57,380 Also, when you are writing alt text,
375 00:37:57,380 --> 00:38:01,180 what is most important to you in the picture?
376 00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:11,600 When you look at the picture, what stands out to you?
377 00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:18,460 So I hope that answers your question.
378 00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:20,080 [Steve]: Yeah, thank you.
379 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,560 [Dennis]: Any other questions?
380 00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:30,700 [Attendee]: The group that you referred to for consulting
381 00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,460 to review your website,
382 00:38:33,460 --> 00:38:37,980 are companies like that more geared for enterprise-level
383 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:42,680 type of jobs, or are they ... there's a lot of consultants
384 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,200 that just have a bottom line that, it's not accessible
385 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,200 from a finance standpoint, for small sites, small apps,
386 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,060 start ups, that kind of thing.
387 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:59,000 [Robert]: For those kind of sites, like AccessibilityOz,
388 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,100 they're more for enterprise and they're more for
389 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,400 companies rather than individuals, so if you're
390 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,900 an individual, I would suggest looking for
391 00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:17,720 a freelance accessibility consultant.
392 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:24,400 If you're not satisfied with one, never hire them again.
393 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:40,620 That's ... typically freelance accessibility consultants
394 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:51,740 charge around forty to seventy dollars an hour.
395 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:58,520 I did see a lady charge eighty dollars an hour,
396 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,620 and I just had to take her site and say
397 00:40:03,540 --> 00:40:10,120 "look, honey, individual people who are just
398 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,220 making a website for the first time, they are not
399 00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:20,440 going to have that much money.
400 00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:29,520 And her whole market, she tried to market to
401 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:39,660 to individuals, and so. In answer to your question,
402 00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:45,060 Companies like AccessibilityOz and others,
403 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,640 yeah, they're geared more towards corporations
404 00:40:49,640 --> 00:41:02,340 and enterprises. If you can afford their services,
405 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:10,180 hire them. Hire them for the shear fact that
406 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:16,240 you get a lot of opinions versus one.
407 00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:22,900 So, anybody have any other questions?
408 00:41:23,820 --> 00:41:25,180 [Dennis]: Any other questions?
409 00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:31,300 [Attendee]: I know there is a number of WCAG guidelines
410 00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:34,080 out there. Rather than read through the guidelines,
411 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,280 is there a Website Accessibility for Dummies book?
412 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,060 [Robert]: No.
413 00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:39,860 [Laughter]
414 00:41:39,860 --> 00:41:44,760 [Dennis]: And actually there is. It has a red cover.
415 00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:47,980 I can't think of it off hand. But it's supposed to
416 00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:52,760 take WCAG, and it's 2.0, and I think it's called
417 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,580 WCAG 2.0 Made Easy. I think that's the name of it.
418 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,240 It puts WCAG in, what I'll call, common language.
419 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,860 It's fine, its good, and actually there is,
420 00:42:07,860 --> 00:42:11,640 and I don't know the URL off the top of my head
421 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,520 but I just found, this past week,
422 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,780 I think it's called, Interactive WCAG
423 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:24,980 and it has a lot of filters. It basically strips out
424 00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:27,480 what you're not looking for. Like if you're just looking for
425 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,380 what you're not looking for just like ...
426 00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:32,860 things that deal with images, so your alternative text,
427 00:42:32,860 --> 00:42:35,600 contrast, it'll just show you those things.
428 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,060 So, you can actually filter down to maybe
429 00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:41,540 just what you are looking for instead of
430 00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:44,900 scanning through this forty-three page,
431 00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:47,140 you know, if it were printed, forty-three page ...
432 00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:49,440 [Laughter]
433 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,500 But yeah, WCAG is dry.
434 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,540 One thing that came out of CSUN,
435 00:42:56,540 --> 00:42:59,060 and actually Karl Groves, the Viking in
436 00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:00,880 the Viking and the Lumberjack,
437 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,920 he said, and I knew this but It didn't resonate
438 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,300 until he said it at CSUN. It was like, you go to WCAG,
439 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:17,200 you'll have all the principles and the guidelines and such
440 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,380 and then on the right side you'll see "Understanding"
441 00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:24,760 and then whatever this critique is.
442 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:25,860 Read that.
443 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:31,320 That goes into, I'm not going to say plain English, but
444 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,480 it puts it into common English, what they are referring to
445 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,400 and it goes into more details than just having these
446 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,460 statements or these bulleted lists.
447 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,440 Any other questions for Robert?
448 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:54,000 [Attendee]: What comes after Netflix?
449 00:43:54,020 --> 00:43:58,840 [Laughter]
450 00:43:59,180 --> 00:44:02,400 [Robert]: My next target is Hulu.
451 00:44:02,860 --> 00:44:14,500 Because their site ... they still use Flash in 2016.
452 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,080 Yeah, so, Hulu
453 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:27,840 I want to go after educational sites more because
454 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:34,300 I've learned that colleges are the worse at making
455 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:41,540 their sites accessible ... apart from the government,
456 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:49,100 the government actually, ironically, if you go to a site
457 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:54,180 that is made by our government, if you look
458 00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:56,700 at their code, you would see it is horrible
459 00:44:56,700 --> 00:45:06,940 in terms of accessibility, there is two, there is a thing
460 00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:11,900 where having too many accessibility options
461 00:45:12,220 --> 00:45:16,420 the government kid of over reaches, and it makes
462 00:45:16,420 --> 00:45:19,340 their sites incredibly hard to use.
463 00:45:21,980 --> 00:45:27,540 They try to cater to one disability, and it makes it hard
464 00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:31,540 for everyone else to use the stuff.
465 00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:39,340 [Dennis]: Last question...
466 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:40,720 [Attendee]: I have one.
467 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,680 Where do you hang out on the Internet?
468 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:50,920 [Robert]: Oh my. Well, I'm a frequent Reddit user
469 00:45:50,920 --> 00:46:02,300 I mostly am on Twitter. I am tweeting idiotic hashtags
470 00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:05,220 like #cupcakesrule
471 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,800 [Dennis]: That's hope I found Robert
472 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,380 [Laughter]
473 00:46:12,020 --> 00:46:19,860 [Robert]: I am incredibly vocal in the media
474 00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:33,040 I pop up every now and then on Facebook, not so much.
475 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:41,120 I tend to hang around Reddit a lot more right now
476 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,020 than I did in the past.
477 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:51,540 I you want like a central place to hunt me down
478 00:46:51,760 --> 00:47:03,000 you can go to my website
479 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:10,940 blindjournalist.wordpress.com
480 00:47:11,660 --> 00:47:22,480 My Twitter is @theblindwriter. So, yay!
481 00:47:22,780 --> 00:47:32,240 Also, just a little, shameless plug,
482 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:38,940 I also have a Patreon account, so if you want to
483 00:47:38,940 --> 00:47:44,320 make a donation because you like my column about
484 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,540 some really hot man over here in the corner,
485 00:47:48,540 --> 00:47:54,460 then you can make a donation to
486 00:47:56,100 --> 00:48:05,820 patreon.com/blindwriter
487 00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:12,840 If you want to hire me as a consultant or a copywriter
488 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:22,820 or as a freelance email writer or as an advertising writer
489 00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:29,460 then shoot me a tweet or an email.
490 00:48:30,980 --> 00:48:32,260 I'll holler at you.
491 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,940 [Dennis]: Well, thank you very much, Robert.
492 00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:41,340 [Applause]